Faith v. Reason in Mother Teresa’s Dark Night August 30, 2007
Posted by Paul Edwards in Faith, Mother Teresa.trackback
“If anyone is in heaven, there is no question Mother Teresa is there,” is a sentiment shared by millions of Americans, believers and non-believers alike. Yet her own words suggest it was not a sentiment Mother Teresa herself believed.
A new book just out from Doubleday, Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light, reveals a previously unknown side of Teresa through her private letters written over a period of 66 years. It should be noted this book was not produced by her detractors but rather by those seeking sainthood for the venerable nun. The letters sound what Time magazine calls “…a hodgepodge of desperate notes not intended for daylight…” In the letters, written mostly to confessors, Teresa candidly - and at times tormentedly - expresses not only serious doubts about her faith, but seems resolved that she possesses no genuine faith at all.
An evangelist for Atheism, Christopher Hitchens, uses Teresa’s inner turmoil as revealed in her letters to invalidate any and all belief outside of what can be validated by human reason. He writes in a recent piece for Newsweek,
Now, it might seem glib of me to say that this is all rather unsurprising, and that it is the inevitable result of a dogma that asks people to believe impossible things and then makes them feel abject and guilty when their innate reason rebels.
Hitchens may be right. If all we have is our innate reason to validate for us what otherwise seems impossible, then indeed our efforts are futile, resulting in a chaos of soul like that demonstrated in Teresa’s letters. But the ability to believe impossible things - like the resurrection of Jesus from the dead and ultimately in our own resurrection - results not from innate reason, but from faith. And that faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.
Faith does not come from our making sense of things, from our ability to reason things out. Faith is not positive thinking. Faith is not doing more good things in the hopes that by doing so faith will come. Faith is the free and unmerited gift of God granted to those who truly hear His word. ”Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Faith germinates in the soul when the soul receives with meekness the engrafted word which is able to save it. “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Faith begins where reason ends. Faith assures us precisely because our reason doesn’t. In the words of the hymn writer Edward Mote, “When all around my soul gives way, He then is all my hope and stay.”
In spite of his agenda to demonstrate the futility of belief, Hitchens has made an astute observation when he says,
It seems, therefore, that all the things that made Mother Teresa famous—the endless hard toil, the bitter austerity, the ostentatious religious orthodoxy—were only part of an effort to still the misery within.
Hitchens again is right. It would appear from her letters that when everything around her was giving way, Teresa opted to work harder rather than to trust more. Teresa is evidence that no amount of effort on our part can “still the misery within,” granting us assurance of a relationship with God. After all, who among us has worked harder and yet had less assurance than Teresa? Assurance comes not from what we do but from faith in what Christ has done.
Jesus himself said, “Many shall say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast our devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?’ And then I will profess unto them, ‘I never knew you.’” (Matthew 7:22-23). Could it be that Teresa is among the “many” who did “many wonderful works” in the name of Jesus but were trusting in their works to vindicate them in the end rather than the One they were working for? Do Teresa’s letters suggest that she could be among those who will hear Jesus say, “I never knew you”? You are aghast at the thought, because such a sentiment is so contrary to the conventional wisdom that says Teresa, of all people, is in heaven because she served the poorest of the poor and gave up her own life in doing so. But that’s precisely the point. If anyone is heaven, it won’t be because of the many wonderful works they did in Jesus name. It will be because they received faith as a gift from God, a faith that sustains in the midst of doubt, a faith that gives evidence of the reality of our relationship to Christ even when our innate human reason suggests – as it evidently did in Mother Teresa’s case – that the prudent course is to abandon all hope.
Well said Paul.
Do you really believe that someone with great faith can’t afford great doubt?
-Do you remember how John the baptist had his doubts?
Matthew 11v.3 Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?
-Do you remember how highly Jesus speaks of John?
Matthew 11v.11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist
If the greatest among those born of women had doubts … I’m sure we’re not much better.
Now, I don’t know the content of those letters but having doubts about having genuine faith is not enough to conclude that she was not saved.
On the other hand, the statement:”If anyone is in heaven, there is no question Mother Teresa is there” shows how people do not understand the gospel.
Just look at George Barna’s poll on salvation:
“More than half of all adults (54%) believe that if a person is generally good, or does enough good things for others during their life, they will earn a place in Heaven. (2006).”
It is sad … but Hell will be filled with good and kind people.
God’s standard is not our standard. He requires holiness. He did not come here to make us good people; He came here to make us new people.
Now, to connect the 2: someone once said that Satan’s plan is to make non-Christians believe that they are Christians and to make the Christians believe that they are non-Christians.
Kal
Good question. For how long should some doubt persist?
Romans 8:16 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.”
By way of personal testimony;
Through out the years,my road has been like a mountain range. Some high points and some low, but usually a difficult path to travel, and through it all I have always known that the throne of my God is at all times available for me to come boldly to it, and I have never went away with the sense I was a bastard child. My faith has indeed “found a resting place not in devise nor creed!.I need no other argument, I need no other plea, it is enough that Jesus died, and that he died for me.
I can not speak to her situation other than to say that when this sinner was redeemed, it took and stayed with me! As an old time preacher once said, ” I was gloriously saved over 35 years ago and have never gotten over it”! “A wonderful savior is Jesus my Lord, a wonderful savior to me” I’m in His cleft and in His care for evermore.
I was shocked when I heard your show yesterday on this subject, because Mother Teresa’s level of commitment and service was so evident, I couldn’t imagine it coming from merely a works-righteousness context. Knowing her Roman Catholic theology to likely be far from mine, I still imagined that our commonality of belief in the completed work of Christ for our salvation made us brother and sister in Jesus, and that we shared confidence in the promise of a future life with Christ in heaven.
This way of tormented conscience and unsettled salvation is truly not a desirable thing, and I praise God for a settled salvation in my life for many decades now!
……………………”IT IS FINISHED”!!!!!
……Has a greater person ever spoken a greater statement?
Paul, please read Chuck Colson’s article on this same subject, I think he’s summed up this whole debate better than anyone else I’ve heard throwing their two cents in.
Personally, I think it’s shameful & totally disrespectful to judge someone’s life based only on certain letters they wrote, letters they did not intend to be published, letters that could not possibly represent the complete picture of who a person was & what they believed. Not many people (including myself) can fully articulate what they are trying to say! To say these letters were made public by her supporters does not make it okay to use them as the sole gauge of her life - which you are so obviously doing.
Also, I’m really disappointed you would give a person such as Christopher Hitchens any mention at all, no matter in what context. His disrespectful tone is not worthy of this discussion.
I’m saddened to say, it seems you are using this whole Mother Teresa thing to expound on your anti-Cathoic views. The man who called in Wednesday to tell you off was a disrespectful idiot, but the next caller had a lot of thoughtful information to share and you pretty much dismissed him after he was done saying you “could only stomach so much”. That told me a lot… Callers quote you various things from the Bible and you usually say “I get all that”. Then you go on to quote what YOU want to quote as if that is the only quote that matters and whatever they said is irrelevant. Paul, surely you must know - it is ALL relevant.
A disappointed listener who will not be listening quite as much anymore…
Chris,
I’ve become quite accustomed to being written off as “anti-Catholic” simply because I quote the Bible in response to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Chuck Colson is in bed with Roman Catholicism and without even reading his piece you refer me to I can already guess at what his perspective is.
The caller to whom I responded by saying “I can only stomach so much” was feeding me and my audience the typical Catholic position about climbing ladders and visions of the mystics. I do not apologize for having very little tolerance for such humanistic nonsense. It is, after all, my program, and I have a responsibility for what I allow to be said in a forum I control.
I’m sorry you have interpreted my perspective on Mother Teresa as merely anti-Catholic. Certainly it is anti-Catholic, but not in a bigoted way but very much in a way that is supported by Scripture. I make no apology for being opposed to a humanistic religious system that is deceiving many of its adherents into hell because they encourage them to trust the Church and its legalistic system rather than Jesus, who paid it all.
This is probably not the right forum for this debate and I realize I am not at all on equal footing to debate in the first place - as a Christian of less than 6 yrs, who so far has been able to retain more the spirit of her Bible reading rather than being able to quote chapter & verse. (What can I say, I have a long way to go on the journey…) But since you did respond, I feel I should provide some clarification.
I’m sorry I have apparently touched a nerve with you, as your lengthy response took less than 5 minutes to be posted. I’m afraid you are viewing my remarks much more “harshly” than what was intended. (As I said, it’s difficult - for most of us anyway - to accurately articulate what we’re trying to say.) Perhaps I should have just typed the 2nd paragraph and left it at that, as that is the main point I wanted to make, and I would be saying it whether Mother Teresa was Catholic or Protestant. I just do not like it when people’s reputations are put under the magnifying glass only once they are no longer here to defend themselves - it seems grossly unfair to me.
As far as Chuck Colson, I honestly don’t know a thing about him or his religious views - I just came across his piece (on your website by the way), read it, and felt he hit the nail right smack on the head.
I don’t mean to “dismiss” you as being anti-Catholic. [To be honest, I usually only listen to you during the breaks on Michael Medved's show (sorry!). Occasionally I'll listen much longer if I find your topics quite interesting.] But I have heard you speak enough to know you aren’t Catholic, and you do tend to lump the Catholics all together & dismiss them - summing up their beliefs in a way I seriously doubt your Catholic listeners would agree was their own belief. (And that is the frustrating part!) I’m not trying to “discredit” you or anything like that - all of us tend to be at least a little biased in our views of something contrary to our own belief, it’s just human nature.
You say your anti-Catholic viewpoint is very much “supported by scripture”, I have no doubt you believe it is. And of course there’s no argument I can make in this entire posting which you haven’t already heard, but surely you realize there is plenty of scripture to support a “pro-Catholic” viewpoint as well. (This is exactly why so many people find the Bible very confusing! It says this here, but on the other hand it says that over there…)
I am not a Catholic (not yet anyway), and was as cynical of ANY organized religion as a person could be a few short years ago. But the more I read of their true teachings, the more I hear of their best teachers (via EWTN, etc.) , and more importantly, the more I read of the earliest history of Christianity, the harder it is for me to answer the question “why am I NOT a Catholic?”
I used to go along with the sola scriptura position. But where in the Bible does it say the Bible alone is to be our source of information? If you believe it does say this somewhere, please help me find it! Instead the opposite seems to be true. Though I don’t have the verses available to me now, it certainly says Jesus said & did many other things in addition to those listed in the Bible. Are we to believe His other words & deeds have no meaning just because they’re not in the Bible? I certainly can’t say that. And this alone opened my eyes to the fact there is a place for “tradition” if you will - providing it is linked/handed down from the earliest history of Christianity. How can I say the local “xyz denomination” church knows more about Jesus and how he wanted the church to be, than the church founded by the followers who personally knew Him?
If the Protestant viewpoint is correct, and the interpretation of the Bible is so simple and cut and dry as you would have me believe, why are there a gazillion different denominations? These are all honest questions I have, as a Christian genuinely seeking a church to attend. And I’m sorry, but your comments about the Catholic church and what you call it’s “humanistic nonsense” don’t help me in my dilemma.
I’m well aware there are many Catholics walking/talking in a way that is contrary to the true teaching of the church, just as you would find in every religion. And unfortunately it does seem as though many “cradle Catholics” are the absolute worst examples of what the church is about, i.e. they can’t tell you what the church truly teaches, they just know they go to mass every week, etc. etc. But I’ve never met or heard a single Catholic say they believe works are the way to Heaven - which is the view you attribute to them.
Frankly, I have found nearly all of the very best examples of what Catholicism is all about - it’s best representatives - are the converts, the folks who’ve looked at things from both “sides” if you will. These are the folks who really know their stuff on Catholicism, the history of Christianity, and the Bible. This is why I watch The Journey Home on EWTN when I can.
To put Jesus first is certainly not contradictory to true Catholicism, it is the heart of it, which is not the impression I would have if I went by the things you say about Catholicism on your show. The fact there are big problems within the Catholic church, or that many Catholics are not very good representatives of the Catholic church is not a reason to abandon Catholicism - but rather to get back to the essence of it.
Well, I’ve rambled on and on & still do not feel I’ve made all the points I wanted to, but this will have to suffice. I won’t be replying any further, but will check out any reply you may make later. Thanks for listening Paul.
Thank you Paul for taking on the tough issues, like this one. I know it isnt easy getting out of Americas politically correct box. But I thank you for doing so,even though sometime I dont agree with you. It is good when we dialog about things in the bible and issues. I feel that our freedom of speech is in jepodary if christians are silent or choose not to engage in important controverseal issues. Keep up the good work.
Chris when you said “A disappointed listener who will not be listening quite as much anymore”. I’m sure Paul was looking at it as Harsh. Then you said “I’m afraid you are viewing my remarks much more “harshly” than what was intended.”
I call Catholicism the teddy bear syndrome. People have been brought up in this and it has been implanted in there brains. It’s hard to give up that teddy bear. If you were to stay with the Bible only. Ask God for direction. And you will see the truth as it is.
Thank you Joshua. I’m sure he (Paul) did take it harshly. That’s part of the problem with blogs, chats, etc. - you really can’t gauge where a person’s coming from without even hearing their voice. (And this was the first time I’ve posted on any forum for that very reason…)
At any rate, I don’t know if you read my whole post (too long I know), but I was not “brought up in this”, if anything, just the opposite view was “implanted” in my brain… Again, I didn’t post here to defend “Catholics”, my main issue with Paul’s show was the fact he was questioning someone’s very life when they’re no longer here to defend themselves. It is a love for God and God’s creations that leads me in my charitable activities. It’s extremely hard to believe that was not the case with Mother Teresa as well. She is gone, she can’t reply. Why not address the subject using compelling hypotheticals, or discussing someone who is still around so they can respond. (If it’s wrong to use someone who IS still around by the way, then I should think it’s even more wrong to use someone who is gone.) This is all I’m saying.
As to your last few sentences, I would ask the same question of you that I did Paul: Where in the Bible does it say “Bible only”? Also, Where did the New Testament come from?, Have you read anything of the earliest history of Christianity? and again, If the Bible is so clear in how it should be interpretted and if Protestantism is so clearly the answer, why are there so many denominations each having their own interpretation, customs, etc.? These are big questions if you ask me - and whenever I see them asked, they don’t seem to get answered - just ignored.
I have asked God for direction, believe me. I started investigating Catholicism more fully after attending two Catholic funerals in two days (different churches) and discovering a feeling of the presence of God and a reverence for Him there such as I had not felt at any other church or funeral I’d ever been to.
Believe me, it’s not like I “want” to become Catholic. I was hoping just the opposite, that I’d find clear and compelling evidence that they were off their rockers and I could just go back to trying to discern which Protestant church to regularly attend. Much to my surprise, that didn’t happen. Despite the fact many “cradle Catholics” aren’t good representatives, and despite the fact some of their practices may complicate matters more than I can (at present anyway) understand a need for - there is a truth there that I don’t find elsewhere.
Having said that, I believe people of EQUAL faith can have honest heartfelt differences of opinion about how to exercise their faith and how to demonstrate their love for Christ. Thanks for the reply & God bless.
Chris,
I don’t usually read blogs, much less add my comments, who really cares what I have to say/write . . . and who am I and what do I know. However, I read your comment #9 above, last night, and then happened (providentially) to read your #12 post today. Your posts are as you say, quite long, so I hope you will consider my suggestion, because it will be quite long as well. Let me give you a quote from S.C. Lewis regarding ‘long answers’:
It is no good asking for a simple religion. After all, real things are not simple. They look simple, but they are not. The table I am sitting at looks simple: but ask a scientist to tell you what it is really made of–all about the atoms and how the light waves rebound from them and hit my eye and what they do to the optic nerve and what it does to my brain–and, of course, you find that what we call ’seeing a table’ lands you in mysteries and complications which you can hardly get to the end of. A child saying a child’s prayer looks simple. And if you are content to stop there, well and good. But if you are not and the modern world usually is not–if you want to go on and ask what is really happening–then you must be prepared for something difficult. If we ask for something more than simplicity, it is silly then to complain that the something more is not simple.
Very often, however, this silly procedure is adopted by people who are not silly, but who, consciously or unconsciously, want to destroy Christianity. Such people put up a version of Christianity suitable for a child of six and make that the object of their attack. When you try to explain the Christian doctrine as it is really held by an instructed adult, they then complain that you are making their heads turn round and that it is all too complicated and that if there really were a God they are sure He would have made ‘religion’ simple, because simplicity is so beautiful, etc. You must be on your guard against these people for they will change their ground every minute and only waste your time. Notice, too, their idea of God ‘making religion simple’; as if ‘religion’ were something God invented, and not His statement to us of certain quite unalterable facts about His own nature.
Besides being complicated, reality, in my experience, is usually odd. It is not neat, not obvious, not what you expect. For instance, when you have grasped that the earth and the other planets all go round the sun, you would naturally expect that all the planets were made to match–all at equal distances from each other, say, or distances that regularly increased, or all the same size, Or else getting bigger or smaller as you go further from the sun. In fact, you find no rhyme or reason (that we can see) about either the sizes or the distances; and some of them have one moon. one has four, one has two, some have none, and one has a ring.
Reality, in fact, is usually something you could not have guessed. That is one of the reasons I believe Christianity. It is a religion you could not have guessed. If it offered us just the kind of universe we had always expected, I should feel we were making it up. But, in fact, it is not the sort of thing anyone would have made up. It has just that queer twist about it that real things have. So let us leave behind all these boys’ philosophies–these over simple answers. The problem is not simple and the answer is not going to be simple either.
(http://acts242.org/features/books/mereChristianity.asp?acts=1 ; quote is from chapter 7)
So now after having said all that, and after reading your long post . . . you seem to keep asking the same question, and no one is answering . . . I hope this will . . . if you will go to the following link, I believe you will be able to have your question answered, but be prepared, it’s not a short paper I send you to (it’s in two parts):
Part 1:
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-18.HTM
Part 2:
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/80-19.HTM
I tend to overload . . . but when it comes to the things of the One who gave Himself for me, I can not help myself . . . so here I go, just one more site you might find helpful in learning of the early Christians:
http://greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/index.html
I hope these sites are a help and a blessing to you, and may Jehovah God move your soul in His direction.
Resting in Him,
Schuyler
Oops, correction, I just went back and re-read my post from yesterday, I must have had one finger jump in front of the other, the quote I gave is not from “S.C. Lewis”, it’s from C.S. Lewis.
1 JOHN 5:13
“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life…”
Paul,
Ave Maria..
You sir, must be the fiddle in Satan’s hands. How can you even think, or doubt for one moment that Blessed Mother Teresa, did Christ’s work, without any faith in Our Savior. Even if these letters state that she had doubts, and felt abandoned. Many Saints felt abandoned by God. That was their penance. They did their work with the love of Christ, all the while feeling abandoned by God. Do these following words have any sort of meaning to you? “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which is translated “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Mark 15: 34-35. Our Lord Jesus Christ, at the time of his death even felt abandoned. Would you call Him an Atheist?
I am so glad that Jesus did all my penance and left me his peace - the peace of God which passes all understanding, the peace not as the world gives, the peace which keeps my heart and mind through Christ Jesus and assures me that He will never leave me nor forsake me. I’m so glad any light affiliction I endure here is working for me a far more eternal and exceeding weight of glory.
As for the quote of Jesus from the cross you cite: Jesus didn’t feel abandoned by God, he WAS abandonded by God because of my sin and your sin. The cross wasn’t a “dark night of the soul,” it was the ultimate plan of God from the foundation of the world so that sinners like me and you could be saved. On the cross Christ became the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
As for the Psalmists who often lamented their circumstances, they never doubted God’s promises and rested in His word, not in their own efforts.
~~~~~~~~~~AND THE REST OF THE STORY~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~”IT IS FINISHED”~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ROMANS 8:31 “What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, WHO can be against us?
and again I repeat;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~”IT IS FINISHED”~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Perhaps, some reason for doubt prior to this statement, but now?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~”IT IS FINISHED”~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Revelation 1:17 “And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, FEAR NOT; I am the first and the last:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold; I am alive for evermore. Amen; and have the keys of hell and death.”
Call it ‘perseverance’ or ‘preservation’;……………………
~~~~~~~~~~~~~IT IS (still) FINISHED!
Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling. It is Him, and in Him alone, and beside Him, there is none else.
and one more time;
You can “know”, you can “know”, you CAN know, “that ye have eternal life”. ~~~~I do, and none of this chatter will ever shake that!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hallelujah What a Savior!~~~~~~~~~~~
I’m sorry you have interpreted my perspective on Mother Teresa as merely anti-Catholic. Certainly it is anti-Catholic, but not in a bigoted way but very much in a way that is supported by Scripture. I make no apology for being opposed to a humanistic religious system that is deceiving many of its adherents into hell because they encourage them to trust the Church and its legalistic system rather than Jesus, who paid it all.
Paul, your anti-Catholic statements, I submit, are bigoted, because you assume something untrue about Mother Teresa on the basis of the fact that she was Catholic.
You actually accept without question Christopher Hitchens analysis of the Blessed. His opinion is based on factual errors which you swallow eagerly.
Before you make patently false statements about so public a figure, whose life is well documented, do some research. If you did that, instead of taking the word of a militant atheist, you would know that 1) Mother Teresa’s whole life was based on her faith in Jesus Christ (perhaps you could take the time to actually read her letters and try to presume the best), and 2) she in fact did not trust in herself or in her works, but in the grace of Christ.
Over and over throughout her life, Mother Teresa reminded her sisters that they were not social workers but contemplatives in the world. Their work was the fruit of continual prayer and faith in Christ.
Don’t indulge your prejudices and then hide behind Sacred Scipture.
Why is it when an evangelical defends his biblical faith the Catholics call him bigoted but when the Pope condemns evangelicals and protestants as not part of the faith he is considered enlightened and widely praised? Why is Catholic prejudice never called by its true name?
Is the Pope also a bigot?
Paul,
That is the whole point. You are not defending biblical faith, you are abandoning reason.
You refuse to look at the life of Mother Teresa as it was. She did in fact, like all Catholics, accept justification by faith. You assume that because she was Catholic, her temptations must have constituted a trust in pure reason as opposed to reason enlightened by faith under trial. You also assume that her works were a result of trust in herself, rather than trust in God. Your assumptions are patently contrary to fact, and you have made no attempt to deliver yourself from your ignorance. That by definition is bigotry.
On the other hand, the whole point of the Protestant Reformation was to reject all that appeared to be contrary to the idea of solus Christus, which, obviously, includes the idea of apostolic succession and the sacramental life which is integrally connected to it. Just as obvious is that fact that the Catholic Church has retained this belief. Benedict XVI never said that Protestants are "not part of the faith," he said that their congregations do not constitute "churches," but rather "ecclesial communities." This is an expression of a principle which clearly enunciates our historical differences. In this matter you have neither expressed the question accurately nor shown equivalence of the Popes clear statement of our differences with bigotry.
Father Angelo,
I am not ABANDONING reason, I’m just not depending on it. Again, I am not ASSUMING anything about Teresa. We have HER OWN WORDS.
You are wrong when you assert that the Reformation rejected what APPEARED to be contrary to the idea of Solus Christus. These things don’t APPEAR to be contrary to Solus Christus; they ARE contrary to Solus Christus.
Apostolic succession and the sacramental life are indeed contrary not only to Solus Christus but also Soli Fide, Solo Gratia, Soli Scriptura and Soli Deo Gloria. Through the humanistic system of the Catholic Church you believe you can cooperate with God and His grace. I am dependent on God’s grace ALONE.
The Pope does not speak for God, and he certainly doesn’t speak for God’s true church. He can make all the claims he wants about “churches” v. “ecclesial communities.” I’ll take my cues from the word of God.
“Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason—I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other—my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I cannot do otherwise. God help me, Amen.” Martin Luther
You continue on the broad road; I’ll stick with the narrow.
I have a question;
Why would any one need the “equivalence” of any other, when the Lord God Himself has addressed this matter.
John 1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.
The difference is who or what we accept as the final authority. This has always been the issue from the beginning, and continues until this day. “Yea hath God said”?
Paul,
Like Hitchens, the atheist, whose analysis you accept without question, you have knowledge of a couple of sentences from a couple of letters. Those few words you interpret as you wish, because long ago you concluded that Catholicism is a “humanistic system.”
You know very little of what Catholics actually believe, and you know almost nothing of Mother Teresa’s life. Furthermore, you appear to have no interest in correcting that problem before you pontificate. Your current parvity of information appears to be too convenient.
If you really knew anything about her life, you would never suggest that she had no faith or that she trusted in her own works. But that wouldn’t fit your theory, would it?
You missed my point entirely concerning apostolic succession. We OBVIOUSLY disagree on the point. Benedict XVI’s statement does no more than state our long standing disagreement. To say that it is bigoted would be like me saying that the word “Protestant” is bigoted because it implies disagreement with me.
Your last statement only proves my point. You now think you have me all figured out, when, in fact, you know virtually nothing about me, only that I am Catholic. Because I am Catholic, you believe, I do not accept justification through faith, and I trust only in reason, etc., etc. So I am on my way to hell.
The narrow road, Paul, does not refer to narrow mindedness. Try doing a little more homework.
I appreciate the vigorous debate, and I mean no offense. I just assume that if you are so bold as to place Mother Teresa among the faithless, then you must be prepared for direct and frank opposition.
Angelo,
I did not say that the Pope is bigoted because he holds theological positions with which evangelicals and Catholics are in obvious disagreement. I am using your logic to make the point YOU are missing. If from your perspective I am bigoted as an evangelical simply because I disagree with salient points of Catholic theology, then by THAT LOGIC the Pope is ALSO bigoted (as are you and those who agree with him) when he confines all evangelicals to a place outside the true Church simply because we disagree with humanistic Catholicism, i.e., simply because we are evangelicals. Why am I not permitted to disagree with you without being called a bigot yet the Pope - and those who follow him and submit to his unbiblical and usurped authority rather than to Christ - are not bigoted?
You understand, don’t you, that I do not believe the Pope is a bigot?The Pope is merely being Catholic just as I am merely being evangelical. The Pope and you are free to believe whatever you wish. But don’t call me a bigot for defending my faith if you are not also willing to call the Pope a bigot for defending his.
No Catholic - including you and Teresa - believe in justification by faith. You believe your faith makes it possible for the CHURCH to justify you through the sacraments, etc. You and I mean different things by “faith” and “justification.” It is faith as a free and unmerited gift (grace) that truly justifies on the basis on Christ’s penal substitutionary sacrifice alone. No Catholic believes that, and for you to suggest otherwise is in perfect accord with the deception the Catholic Church has perfected: co-opting language that makes it appear you are closer to an evangelical/biblical position than you really are.
Your implication that I am not prepared for direct and frank opposition is readily disporoven by the fact that I control the comments on this blog and every one of yours has posted. I am not afraid of your opposition. I understand it completely. Your responses have been civil, with the exception of one or two ad hominem jabs about ignorance and narrow mindedness. Most of my email from Catholics have been filled with hatred and words no genuine follower of Jesus would allow to pass through his mouth - but out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks which for me is just further evidence of the deception the majority of Catholics are under.
You have disqualified my thesis about Teresa because I don’t really know her life - but again I will say for I think the THIRD time: we have Teresa’s OWN WORDS. I did not place Teresa among the faithfuless. Read her letters. It is HER OWN WORDS that question her faith, not mine.
The reality is, Teresa’s letters do less to indict her than they do the humanistic system of Catholicism which demands so much we carnal humans are incapable of producing. I am trusting Christ alone by faith alone, not a system, not a program, and not a Church.
Paul,
Your zeal only seems to be matched by your lack of charity and your cowardice in attacking a woman who, despite enormous difficulties, persevered “unto death” in carrying her cross.
Most Protestant sects (not all, for there are of course almost 40,000 of them, all proclaiming infallibility in their particular interpretation), seem to conveniently forget that we are to carry our cross (that’s scriptural by the way Paul) making up for what is lacking in the sacrifice of Christ (also scripture!).
So what on earth (or in Heaven to be more precise) do you think that means, if not to overcome obstacles and persevere in loving God, despite the temptations not to do it. And those whom he loved most, he tempts most. He will not give us more than we can handle, but the great souls who are set as examples to us, indeed as icons of example (the Catholic Church calls them Saints - as does St. Paul - more scripture, Paul) will be tempted greatly, and will persevere heroically and show us how to be saints. Such crosses and temptations can be spiritual and psychological as well as physical. So why do you interpret Mother Teresa’s sufferings and temptations as a lack of faith rather than a trial, which she did not give in to?
Paul, this is as scriptural as it gets. If Mother Teresa had thrown in the towel and gone to work for IBM, I would be with you. But the heroic and Blessed nun showed us the very picture of the suffering servant - and did not capitulate.
Paul, do me a favor and read the early fathers of the Church - those who were the disciples of the disciples - and see what they believed in and how they believed.
And just to pin you down, for the edification of your readers - please tell me if your faith would say that Mother Teresa is in Hell
God Bless you
James 1:13-14 ” Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed”.
Here is a second passage, let’s explain this one.
Psalm 78:41
“Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and ‘limited’ the Holy One of Israel”.
How does one LIMIT God?
To quote Sturgis;~~~ “thats a tough one man, thats a tough one”.~~~ (be sure to get the correct dialect when quoting PSR)
Why is there such an uproar when any of these religious figures are questioned, but Jesus Christ himself, is blasphemed daily without so much as a peep?
I can tell you this much gentleman, when John saw his vision, and a right hand set on his shoulder telling him to “fear not”, is was not any religious personality, but none other than the God of Glory himself. And when I stand before that throne, it is He whom I will be standing before, as I anticipate those same words; “Fear Not”!
And when before the throne,
I’ll stand in him complete,
I’ll lay my trophies down
All down at Jesus’ feet’
Jesus paid it all,
All to Him I owe,
Sin had left a crimson stain,
He washed it white as snow.
Debate on, mine eyes are cast upon something exceedingly better at this present moment!
Every head bowed, every eye closed, no one looking around please; How many of you can say with us this~~~~~?
“And those whom he loved most, he tempts most.”
Really?
I guess that part of Jesus’ teaching was cut out when they were editing the Bible.
Also, the apostle Paul called all the believers saints, not just the ones God ordained to be holier then us.
Oh and Paul,
Just to assist further with your catechesis, the phrase you use (or paraphrase) - “justified by faith alone” or Sola Fide is a fabrication by a man - Martin Luther - who inserted the word “alone” into the text of Romans . But in fact the only time that alone appears with the word faith in the original, biblical text is in James 2:24 where he says that “…..by works a man is justified, not by faith alone”.
Of course Martin Luther also wanted to eliminate this book from the new testament, just like he eliminated quite a few others. I am assuming that he must not have been a very well read biblical scholar since he clearly did not heed the admonition given in the last chapter of the Apocalypse regarding “he that should change one word of scripture”…
I on the other hand, being a simple man, and a faithful Catholic, prefer to adhere closely to scripture, the inerrant Word of God.
Now we are back to the same topic I just addressed with Colin. The old “ye hath God said” society.
Knight, this original you refer to; have you ever seen it, held it, read it?” This has been the main attack by Satan on the plan of God since Gen 1 and still prevails today. The fact is you have no original, no one does, and therefore we are all dependent upon the truth from the Holy Spirit of truth. Please drop the smoke screen, unless you can produce this “original”, for if you should be able to, it would clear the air. The warning in the book of Revelation states ” prophecy of ‘this’ book” as differing to “all scripture”, however the admonition would be wise to apply to all scripture. Again, without the “original”, how do you know?
Paul,
I am not trying to get in the debate between yourself and Father Angelo, I’m just trying to defend Blessed Teresa.
Jesus himself said, “Many shall say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast our devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?’ And then I will profess unto them, ‘I never knew you.’” (Matthew 7:22-23). Could it be that Teresa is among the “many” who did “many wonderful works” in the name of Jesus but were trusting in their works to vindicate them in the end rather than the One they were working for? Do Teresa’s letters suggest that she could be among those who will hear Jesus say, “I never knew you”?
Now to combat your scripture verse, with another scripture verse:
“He will place the sheep on his right, and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me…’Amen I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine you did for me’. Matt 25: 33-41. As you know Jesus goes on to say that the righteous shall go on to eternal life.
How can you say that Jesus would say to Blessed Teresa that He never knew her? She (as my pastor pointed out) was the spouse of Jesus Crucified, so she suffered along side with him. At the time of crucifixion (as I pointed out earlier) Jesus said “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?” He was not “abandoned” by God as you think he was, he felt abandoned by God. Jesus then went on to say “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit”. So it is only natural being a spouse of Jesus Crucified, she felt abandoned, and when it was her time to join her spouse in eternal glory, I can only imagine that, she also said Father; into your hands I commend my spirit.
Seeing as all you are going on Blessed Teresa’s “own” words and how it is definitive that these words make her an Atheist, what can you say about these:
“I am a little pencil in the hand of a writing God who is sending a love letter to the world.”
“I know God will not give me anything I can’t handle. I just wish that He didn’t trust me so much”
“Many people mistake our work for our vocation. Our vocation is the love of Jesus”
“Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.”
“Each one of them is Jesus in disguise”
“Let us more and more insist on raising funds of love, of kindness, of understanding, of peace. Money will come if we seek first the Kingdom of God - the rest will be given.”
Finally…
“Words which do not give the light of Christ increase the darkness.”
So I ask you Paul as a fellow Christian are you trying to increase the light or the Darkness?
Thank you Don,
I really appreciate your intellectual honesty. I reproduce your quote below:
“The fact is you have no original, no one does, and therefore we are all dependent upon the truth from the Holy Spirit of truth.”
Let us make the assumption that Holy scripture is the inerrant word of God. That is what Catholics and Protestants believe - yes?
My point is that from the time the canon of books was accepted (by the Catholic Church please note), the Latin translation of the Hebrew and Greek universally accepted as the most accurate, most perfect was the St. Jerome translation. This was translated into English in the 16th century to form the Douay Rheims version, which is able to be held, looked at etc.. etc…. Now whether you accept that or not, the HISTORICAL FACT I want to draw your attention to is that Martin Luther added to word “alone” into Romans to create the “saved by faith alone” sentence, in order to solidify his position. As I said above, the only time this word appears with the word faith in the biblical text (prior to His intervention) is in James 2:24 where he says that “…..by works a man is justified, not by faith alone”.
Now this is fact AND attested to by Martin Luther himself! This is not my fabrication. He justified it and told anyone who would listen that he did it on his own authority as it was the “right thing to do”. And he tried to remove any book that would challenge his own premise about the nature of justification and salvation. He was successful for many old testament books, but could not do it for James - “the epistle of straw” as he termed it.
If this is the “rock” that you would build your eternity on, I am fearful for you.
As I challenged Paul, why not read the early fathers of the church and see what they believed and how they practiced their religeon. I did, and I found that their faith was solidly Catholic, as I am therefore now. Be open to the truth, rather than believe things that others would tell you - including me - read the early works and see what they would teach you.
And god bless you in this endeavor.
Remarkable!
Titus 3 sums up this debate!
Indeed Mother Teresa was and forever will be one of the most remarkable women of our time. As to where or how she will spend eternity, none of us can really know, for the interaction and response of a heart moved on by the Holy Spirit of God can happen in the twinkling of an eye and a new creation emerges. What we can be sure of, is what the Word of God relates to us. By His stripes we are healed. By His blood we are cleansed. By His Word we are renewed. By His name we are set free. The only action required on our part is to believe and that by a freely given gift of faith from the Father of Lights above.
I am soooo grateful that Father God made no lengthy list of accomplishments to obtain salvation. He made it simple and free…no one is left out of the offer because of inability to pay or reason or meet a physical requirement…the weak, the simple minded, the very old, the very young, all nationalities are welcomed to the Fathers arms through faith…and that He gave us all as well…for every man has been given the measure of faith by God Himself.
Father God also ordained for us to walk in “good works” and wills us to love one another. I am thankful that Mother Teresa took this prompting of the Spirit and so walked in many good works as have many throughout history, but the Word of God clearly communicates to us that it is through FAITH and not through WORKS that the Blood is applied and the angel of death passes by.